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Belgrade Media Report 13 July 2018

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United Nations Office in Belgrade

Daily Media Highlights

Friday 13 July 2018
LOCAL PRESS

• Full support of Mozambique to territorial integrity of Serbia (RTV/Tanjug)
• Drecun: Elections if people say no in Kosovo issue referendum (N1)
• Odalovic: No clear signal from Pristina (N1)
• Zakharova: Russia has not changed stance on Kosovo (Beta)

REGIONAL PRESS

Bosnia & Herzegovina
• Ivanic’s office did not give consent to signing of joint declarations of countries participants in Berlin Process until RS’ suggestions were taken into account (BN TV)
• Dodik: Izetbegovic understands RS is committed to military neutrality (ATV)
• Commemoration for Serb victims killed in Srebrenica and Bratunac villages in 1992 held in Zalazje (BHT1)
• B&H CEC determines order of political parties, independent candidates and coalitions on ballots for general elections (BHT1)
• UK Parliament’s Foreign Affairs Committee warns Russia will do everything to jeopardize stability of relations in Western Balkans (N1)
fYROM
• Stoltenberg officially hands over NATO membership invitation to Zaev (MIA)
• Zaev gives credit to all political parties, ex-governments for Macedonia’s NATO membership invitation (MIA)
• Dimitrov: If everything goes well Macedonia may become NATO member in mid-2019 (MIA)
• Ahmeti: Our dream Macedonia to join NATO comes true (MIA)
• Opposition VMRO-DPMNE MPs set to vote in favor of Declaration on Macedonia’s NATO membership (MIA)
• Pavlopoulos: Name solution based on history, international law, followed by EU-NATO integration (MIA)
• Russia: Macedonia being sucked into NATO by force (MIA)

INTERNATIONAL MEDIA SOURCES

• Macedonia, Greece: Russia Wades Into the Fray Over a Balkan Name Dispute (Stratfor)
• Will Those Killed by NATO 19 Years Ago in Serbia Ever Get Justice? (CounterPunch)

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LOCAL PRESS

 

Full support of Mozambique to territorial integrity of Serbia (RTV/Tanjug)

 

Serbian Foreign Minister Ivica Dacic, who is on a two-day official visit to Mozambique, visited the parliament of Mozambique today, where he held talks with Chair Veronica Macamo. Dacic presented Macamo the ongoing reforms, as well as the most important internal and foreign policy goals of the government of Serbia. Macamo pointed to the biggest challenges for the development of parliamentarism and democracy in her country. Macamo highlighted Mozambique’s full support to the territorial integrity of Serbia and respect for the principles of international law, as well as the necessity of joint appearances of parliamentary delegations of the two countries in defending common priorities and goals. Both sides assessed that historical friendly cooperation between the two countries provides a perspective for meaningful improvement of cooperation and mutual friendly interaction in numerous fields of common interest.

 

Drecun: Elections if people say no in Kosovo issue referendum (N1)

 

The Chairperson of the Serbian parliamentary Committee for Kosovo and Metohija Milovan Drecun said that a final stage of Belgrade – Pristina dialogue was approaching and that the diplomatic activities should increase, adding that Serbia would not allow Kosovo to become a UN member. Drecun added that the final status discussion demanded a new format of negotiations. He said that if the talks included the final status of Kosovo and not only the normalization of relations, they should take a different format because “I’m not sure any more than the European Union has the power, capacity and authority to end it.” Drecun said that the red line which Serbia would not cross regarding Kosovo was to recognize “the self-declared state as it is, treat it as a neighboring country and allow it a seat in the UN,” adding that a legally binding agreement could not cover all those issues. But, he said, “in the days ahead, the dialogue should strengthen and turn into permanent negotiations.” Drecun said that Belgrade should turn more to the US which has leverage over Pristina and to the five EU member states that did not recognize Kosovo’s independence. Speaking about a possible referendum on Kosovo, he said that if a solution with Pristina were found, “the most democratic way would be for the citizens to say if that solution was good.” If the answer would be no, Drecun believed the current authorities should bear responsibility. “In that situation, the will of the people should be tested in the elections,” he said, asking “how would you implement something to what the population said no?”

 

Odalovic: No clear signal from Pristina (N1)

 

Belgrade does not know what Pristina is going to do in the next stage of the dialogue on normalizing relations, General Secretary at the Serbian Foreign Ministry Veljko Odalovic said on Friday. He said that “it’s obvious that there is no clear signal from Pristina about the dialogue”.  “We don’t know what will happen,” he said and added: “We are waiting for some document and given the political climate in Pristina we don’t know what we are going to get”.

“If Pristina’s condition is for Serbia to recognize Kosovo then why are we negotiating, why was the process to normalize relations launched,” Odalovic said. “Our red line will be that we will not recognize Kosovo, theirs is for us to recognize Kosovo. There is no compromise if things are defined in that way,” he said. “We have certain frameworks, we will come out with a certain platform. We are talking and it’s certain that recognition of independence is excluded as a possibility, we have nothing to talk about there,” the Foreign Ministry official said, adding that Belgrade will stick to what has been agreed under the 2013 Brussels agreement.

 

Zakharova: Russia has not changed stance on Kosovo (Beta)

 

Russia has not changed its stance relative to Kosovo, Russian Foreign Ministry

spokeswoman Maria Zakharova said. Zakharova said this at a regular news conference when asked whether Russia’s stance over the past week had changed with regard to Kosovo, after a meeting between Russian Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev and Kosovo President Hashim Thaci in Ankara. “Our principled position on the question of Kosovo has not changed,” she said.

 

REGIONAL PRESS

 

Ivanic’s office did not give consent to signing of joint declarations of countries participants in Berlin Process until RS’ suggestions were taken into account (BN TV)

 

The Office of Serb member of the B&H Presidency Mladen Ivanic issued a statement on Thursday stating that they did not give consent to signing of the text of joint declarations of the countries – participants in the Berlin Process – until suggestions of competent institutions of the RS were taken into account. “Through the decision of the B&H Presidency, consent was given to signing of the Declaration on Missing Persons, but not to joining the Framework Plan to Address the Issue of Missing Persons from the Conflicts on the Territory of the Former Yugoslavia. According to the decision, the Framework Plan cannot be joined until the entire procedure is conducted in B&H, in accordance with the Law on Missing Persons and constitutional-legal competences, after the consultations with all relevant institutions in B&H, which also include the RS Center for the Investigation of War and War Crimes and the Search for Missing Persons, of course. Suggestions of competent institutions of the RS were entirely respected in this way,” reads the statement issued by the Office.

 

Dodik: Izetbegovic understands RS is committed to military neutrality (ATV)

 

Chairman of the B&H Presidency Bakir Izetbegovic, who is currently in Brussels on the occasion of the NATO Summit, stated on Thursday that activation of NATO Membership Action Plan for B&H and possible B&H’s accession to NATO are in hands of RS President Milorad Dodik. Commenting this statement, Dodik underlined that Izetbegovic understands that the RS is committed to military neutrality, adding that Serb member of B&H Presidency Mladen Ivanic needs to understand it too.

 

Commemoration for Serb victims killed in Srebrenica and Bratunac villages in 1992 held in Zalazje (BHT1)

 

The 26th anniversary of the killing of 69 Serbs in villages Sase, Zalazje, Biljaca and Zagoni near Srebrenica was marked on Thursday. The commemoration for the victims took place in Zalazje. BHT1 interviewed local resident Rado Cvijetinovic who described the killings in 1992. He said that this was once a place where Serbs had their “cradles and their graves,” but now only the graves remain. Apart from 69 people who were killed, 22 went missing. 10 of them are still unaccounted for. Head of Srebrenica Municipality Mladen Grujicic said that Serbs have apologized numerous times for crimes committed by members of their people, but they never heard the same message coming from the other side. BHT1 also interviewed former RB&H Army member Ibran Mustafic who attended the commemoration, who said that this should be the first step towards finding the truth. Reporter noted that in 1992 the RB&H Army units under the command of Naser Oric raided the Serb villages. Oric is currently on trial before the Court of B&H for the killing of three Serbs.

 

B&H CEC determines order of political parties, independent candidates and coalitions on ballots for general elections (BHT1)

 

The B&H Central Election Commission (CEC) determined, by drawing of lots, the order of parties and candidates as they would appear on the ballots for the 2018 General Elections. 62 parties, 36 coalitions and 34 independent candidates will run at the elections. The drawing was supposed to be performed electronically, but was completed by hand after numerous technical difficulties. CEC President Irena Hadziabdic said that the CEC decided to complete the procedure as it was done until 2014, i.e. manually. CEC spokesperson Maksida Piric assured that all lots would be adequately recorded and documented. The electronic system failed due to code errors, but the CEC stated that the completed procedure was in order. Hadziabdic explained that they did not expect these technical difficulties, adding that the process was undisturbed until they reached the number 71. “There were no doubts in the process and, according to all members here, the process was entirely valid up until the number 71,” she said. Since representatives of certain political parties were complaining about what happened, Hadziabdic said that they are entitled to file a complaint with the B&H CEC within 24 hours.

 

UK Parliament’s Foreign Affairs Committee warns Russia will do everything to jeopardize stability of relations in Western Balkans (N1)

 

According to a report of the UK Parliament’s Foreign Affairs Committee which was published Thursday afternoon, Russia is supporting paramilitary structures in the RS and is a powerful ally to RS President Milorad Dodik when it comes to secession of the RS. At the same time, report of the UK’s Foreign Affairs Committee expresses concern when it comes to the purchase of semi-automatic weapons, but also when it comes to all other destabilizing activities both in the RS and the region. The UK Parliament’s Foreign Affairs Committee recommended to UN, NATO, but also to the US to get this part of the Western Balkans involved in Euro-Atlantic integration as soon as possible. The report of the UK Parliament’s Foreign Affairs Committee points out that Russia’s economic presence in the region is not strong, but that it can jeopardize the situation in the Western Balkans. According to the abovementioned report, it was confirmed that Russia had a great impact on participants in the Montenegrin coup plot in 2016, as well as that Russia could have an impact on the historical name deal reached between Macedonia and Greece. According to N1, overall conclusion of the report of the UK Parliament’s Foreign Affairs Committee is that Russia will do everything to jeopardize the stability of relations in the Western Balkans.

 

Stoltenberg officially hands over NATO membership invitation to Zaev (MIA)

 

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg on Thursday at an official ceremony handed over to Macedonian Prime Minister Zoran Zaev the invitation for launching negotiations with NATO after it was approved by the NATO allies at yesterday’s summit in Brussels. “This has been a crucial breakthrough, which has opened the path to become a full member of NATO. Detailed accession talks will begin, helping your country make its final preparations. Once all your national procedures are complete and all NATO Allies have ratified your accession, you will become the 30th member of this Alliance with a seat at our table, an equal voice in our discussions, and an equal vote in our decisions and the security that comes with being part of the world’s most successful military alliance,” the NATO chief told the ceremony after signing the invitation. Extending gratitude to Stoltenberg, Zaev also thanked the premiers of the neighboring countries Greece and Bulgaria for reaching the treaties. “This is a historic decision for the country and for the citizens, and a recognition of our dedicated work for two decades and a recognition of the efforts of all Macedonian politicians since the independence,” he stated. Rest assured, Zaev added, our membership will consolidate democracy in the region and serve as a positive example in the Western Balkans. “As a future, 30th NATO member, we are ready to contribute to further transformation of the Western Balkans into a peaceful, prosperous region,” the PM noted.

 

Zaev gives credit to all political parties, ex-governments for Macedonia’s NATO membership invitation (MIA)

 

As Macedonia obtained an invitation for NATO membership, Prime Minister Zoran Zaev expressed belief Thursday that the referendum on the Skopje-Athens deal would be successful.

“We hope that our deal with Greece will also encourage Belgrade and Pristina to resume their dialogue and come to a solution,’ Zaev said. The Balkans, he said, is no longer the powder keg and is now set to contribute to united Europe, Zaev told reporters in Brussels. He gave credit to all Macedonian political parties and former governments for the country’s NATO membership invitation. He also notified that the Skopje-Athens deal would soon bring benefits to the citizens of both countries. Zaev said he was sorry that the Macedonian President failed to congratulate the government for   NATO membership invitation.

 

Dimitrov: If everything goes well Macedonia may become NATO member in mid-2019 (MIA)

 

Macedonia may formally become the 30th NATO member if all processes to that that effect are wrapped up on time, Foreign Minister Nikola Dimitrov says in an interview with European Western Balkans, published Thursday –  on the day when Macedonia got an invitation to start the accession talks. “This is a technical process that could be done in a matter of months. It is also related to meeting our obligations from the bilateral agreement with Greece. We have to go through a referendum and a process for amending the constitution. After finalizing of all of these processes, we will be able to sign the accession protocols, which should be also ratified by the parliament in Athens and the parliaments of other member states.  So if everything goes well, Macedonia may formally become the 30th NATO member by mid-2019,” Dimitrov says.

Referring to his expectations from the referendum, Dimitrov voices believe that citizens will support the Skopje-Athens name deal, as it preserves the identity and the language. We are Macedonians and our language is Macedonian, Dimitrov says. He voices concern over the referendum turnout, as the voters’ list is not updated. “So, this will be the challenge and it will depend a lot on the opposition. If they recognize the historic opportunity and the historic moment, if we all think more about the country and less about our political futures, than this should be a very successful referendum,” Dimitrov says.

 

Ahmeti: Our dream Macedonia to join NATO comes true (MIA)

 

I am very pleased to extend my greetings to all citizens in the Republic of Macedonia for receiving NATO membership invitation, which represents significantly great and important achievement in regard to safe future of our country, said Ali Ahmeti, leader of the Democratic Union for Integration (DUI) in Thursday’s press statement. The Euro-Atlantic integration was the roadmap of our political and social activity since the very beginning of our activity, but at the same time our consistent commitment towards realization of this strive, whereat the entire time we were unambiguously focused on this goal that resulted in mutual success. The full integration of our country, but also of the region in the NATO, makes our freedom complete, provides security, stability, sustainable peace, good inter-ethnic relations, economic development and social well-being. The accomplishments in this year that ensure equality and Euro-Atlantic integration are strives of all citizens and political parties in the country, that’s why we should all work together to successfully wrap up this process. This dream of our citizens, which comes true requires from us to be united for the Euro-Atlantic Macedonia, Ahmeti said in DUI’s press statement.

 

Opposition VMRO-DPMNE MPs set to vote in favor of Declaration on Macedonia’s NATO membership (MIA)

 

The opposition VMRO-DPMNE MPs will vote in favor of a declaration on supporting Macedonia’s NATO membership, proposed by the defense and security committee.

“VMRO-DPMNE has always supported declarations in support of Macedonia’s EU, NATO membership,” party’s MP Dragan Danev said. He reminded that the first declaration on Macedonia’s NATO membership in 1993 was endorsed by all of MPs at that period.

 

Pavlopoulos: Name solution based on history, international law, followed by EU-NATO integration (MIA)

 

A name resolution based on history and international law is a precondition for Macedonia to join NATO and the EU, according to the Greek President. On Thursday, Prokopios Pavlopoulos held a meeting in Athens with Greek students from abroad in which he spoke about his country’s open issues, including the Macedonia issue, MIA’s correspondent in Athens reports. “We want friendly and good-neighborly relations with FYROM and in practice, we have been showing we support its EU and NATO prospect. However, there is one major precondition – a name solution based on history and international law. For this to happen – and we have been clear about this, as well as NATO and the UN – our neighboring country should make the necessary changes to its legal order, first and foremost, to its constitution, because the the country’s current constitution does not meet the preconditions,” President Pavlopoulos stated. He added that Greece wished Macedonia had completed the obligations of the name agreement successfully in order to join the EU and NATO. “We wish the process had a positive outcome, but all the responsibility, as we all know, lies in the neighboring country,” the Greek President said

 

Russia: Macedonia being sucked into NATO by force (MIA)

 

NATO’s objective to expand across Europe mechanically cannot reinforce security and the sucking into NATO by force of Macedonia only confirms that the policy of ‘open doors’ has become an aim in itself, said a spokeswoman of the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

“In practice, the Alliance is restoring the atmosphere of the Cold War era, in which it may seem, NATO feels much more comfortable than in conditions of a unipolar world order… The sucking into NATO by force of Macedonia only confirms that the policy of ‘open doors’ has become an aim in itself and a tool to gain control of geopolitical territory,” Maria Zakharova told a press briefing in Moscow commenting the NATO Summit in Brussels and the membership invitation extended to Macedonia. Moscow, she said, will analyze the decisions of the NATO Summit from a point of view of the consequences to the European security.

 

INTERNATIONAL MEDIA SOURCES

 

Macedonia, Greece: Russia Wades Into the Fray Over a Balkan Name Dispute (Stratfor, 12 July 2018)

 

Macedonia took a step forward in its attempt to join Western organizations on July 11 when NATO formally invited it to begin talks to join the military alliance. NATO’s invitation arrived barely a month after Macedonia reached an agreement with Greece to change its name to “Northern Macedonia” and end a decades long dispute. If implemented, the agreement between Skopje and Athens would remove one of the main obstacles preventing Macedonia from joining NATO and the European Union. Skopje’s road ahead, however, will remain bumpy, because opposition groups in both Macedonia and Greece have heavily contested the deal. And to make things more complicated, both countries’ governments have accused Russia of trying to undermine the agreement. The Macedonian parliament approved the name deal on July 5, meaning the name change will now go to a referendum in September or October. Prime Minister Zoran Zaev has staked his political future on the deal, threatening to resign if people vote against it. While opinion polls show that most Macedonians are in favor of joining NATO and the European Union, they remain divided on the name issue, suggesting that the referendum result will be hard to predict. Moreover, the main opposition party, the nationalist VMRO-DPMNE, will campaign heavily against the agreement. The political situation is also complex in Greece. The Greek Parliament will decide on the agreement in the coming months in a vote that will also determine the future of Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras’ government. Mirroring Macedonia, Greece’s main opposition party, New Democracy, has also expressed its opposition to the name change, arguing that it does not put an end to potential claims by Skopje over Greek territory. What’s more, even the junior member of Tsipras’ government coalition, the nationalist Independent Greeks party, has spoken out against the agreement. Should the Independent Greeks leave the government in protest at the agreement, Tsipras’ administration could fall, triggering an early election. And then there’s the Russia factor. Balkan countries have previously alleged that Russia is trying to undermine their accession to NATO. Moscow has argued that their accession to the alliance jeopardizes the geopolitical balance in the region. In late 2016, Montenegro accused Russia of trying to orchestrate a coup in the country to prevent it from joining the alliance, although Montenegro did join NATO in early 2017. Macedonia sees the name deal, and membership in NATO and the European Union, as key components in its strategy to normalize its relations with its neighbors and become a more active player in the global arena. It follows, then, that scuttling the name deal would be an effective way of preventing Skopje from entering the alliance. Indeed, Zaev has also pointed a finger at Russia, accusing it of trying to destabilize Macedonia and suggesting that it was behind recent protests against the name deal in the country. Athens is making similar accusations. On July 6, the Greek government expelled two Russian diplomats and barred entry to another two. According to Greek media, Athens believes the Russians had attempted to undermine the name deal, organized protests in northern Greece against the agreement and sought to deepen ties with nationalist organizations and business leaders in the country. The diplomatic frictions between Greece and Russia are notable because the two countries have traditionally had close ties, to the extent that Athens has previously threatened to veto EU sanctions against Moscow. But according to Stratfor sources in Greece, relations between Greece and Russia have cooled in recent months, as Greece’s relations with the United States improve. The ongoing frictions between Athens and Moscow do not necessarily mean that the bilateral relationship has worsened, but they do suggest that it’s going through a period of turbulence. The announcement last month of the deal between Greece and Macedonia to finally bury the hatchet over the latter’s name opened the door for Skopje’s path toward greater integration with the West. But in addition to the domestic opposition in both countries over the agreement, external players might also complicate efforts to finally resolve the quarter-century-old dispute.

 

Will Those Killed by NATO 19 Years Ago in Serbia Ever Get Justice? (CounterPunch, by Robert Fisk, 13 July 2018)

 

The bridge is new, of course. And of the shrapnel and blood we found here 19 years ago – and the bicycle draped with human remains and the decapitated priest – there is little trace. Sanja Milenkovic, the 15-year old girl and potential mathematics genius who died when Nato returned to bomb the narrow, crowded bridge a second time, was buried in her village cemetery. There is a plinth beside the new bridge with her name and those of the nine other villagers who were killed alongside her by Nato in the attack of 30 May 1999. “Normally I won’t ever stop here on the bridge – not even if the police tell me to,” he says. “And Sanja’s picture is in my room, my older daughter is named after her. I visit the cemetery every day. It will be 20 years next year. I think our kids would have played together and Sanja would have been a professor of mathematics, I think. We were very connected. She was good in mathematics and I hated mathematics. I was too small at the time to react as a grown man. When I come here or to the cemetery, I never cry. No one sees me cry. But there is a time when I am alone, then I cry. I talk to my sister and I cry.” So I guess there are questions to be asked. How long does sorrow last? Or anger? We journalists were outraged by the carnage we saw here 19 years ago. We were not personally involved – save, I suppose, for our countries’ membership of Nato – but we thought there should be some form of “justice”. Now I wonder. As the years pass by, people change. Or do they? Sanja and the nine others were killed on the 68th day of the Nato bombardment of Serbia, which was prosecuted – so it was claimed at the time, to protect the Muslim Albanians of Serbia’s province of Kosovo – and the alliance was by this stage growing desperate for a victory over Slobodan Milosevic. As many as 3,000 Muslims were executed and thrown into mass graves but most of the inhabitants of Kosovo had been driven from their homes by Serb militias after the bombing began, and Nato’s targets were becoming steadily more promiscuous, however often they made excuses for a total of more than 500 civilian deaths. But the bombing of Varvarin – carried out by German Nato aircraft, according to a group of German lawyers and by the Serbs themselves – was particularly frightful. Nor were the reasons for the attack on the feast of the Pentecost – a Sunday – credible. Nato claimed that the narrow iron bridge “could have been used by tanks” but in fact it was scarcely wide enough for a car to pass. Nato headquarters chose to give no reason why its aircraft, having bombed the Varvarin bridge at around 1pm when the village was crowded, especially around the Greek Orthodox church close to the bridge, should have returned to bomb the rescuers, Sanja Milenkovic among them. Many of the wounded fell into the Velika Morava river, dark brown and fast-flowing to this day. Sasha, only 14 years old – 13 months separated him from his sister – was at home in his village of Donji Katun when he heard the rumble of explosions. “I thought they had bombed the Stolac bridge because the road there connected [the city of] Kragujevac from the motorway and there were no military facilities in Varvarin,” he recalls. “My grandfather drove me. When we got to our side of the bridge, they said that there were three girls who had been on it, and so we knew they were Sanja and her two friends. They said the ambulance had taken some girls to the hospital. We did not know she was already dead. We found out only later that when the first bomb hit the bridge, Sanja went to help her friends and then when the second bombs came, another part of the bridge collapsed and she went down with it to the water. She was still on the metal walkway but her head was in the water.” Sasha tells his story with a kind of lightness, an epic of pain that has been consumed by the years and, perhaps, by his father’s politics. Zoran Milenkovic was proud of his daughter – she was a star at the Mathematics Gymnasium in Belgrade, praised in the international media (after the war) for her scholarship – but Zoran was also an opposition politician for a party which had called for the end of Milosevic’s rule. “I think maybe no one says this – but I think that also our government [of the time] was guilty,” Sasha Milenkovic says. “The question is still – how do you say this? – that nothing about Kosovo is finished.” With terrible irony, Sanja’s parents urged her to leave Belgrade after the bombing of the Chinese embassy – another Nato “mistake” – because they thought Varvarin would be safer. “We spent a lot of time in our basement. But that day, the feast day, so many people were here that no one thought anything like this would happen. They [the pilots] had their orders, I think… In the movies, the pilot says he won’t do it – but I think they saw everything and then bombed.” Sasha shrugs. “Every year, people come here on this anniversary just because they are ordered to come. Nobody really comes here to honour the victims. So I don’t like this place. Last year, I stood next to the president [Vucic] here and he said, ‘You look like your father’ and I said, ‘No. I look like my mother’.” Is this cynicism? Sasha just smiles. “You are the first person I have given an interview to,” he adds. “I never wanted to talk about this. I never do. My older daughter says: ‘I will be like my aunt’ – she is also good at mathematics… I don’t really remember the day Sanja was buried. I fell down when I saw her put down [in the grave] and I didn’t understand. I was unconscious… We can accuse people of what they did here – there were some German lawyers who said this was wrong. I think the world knows what happened here. We don’t want any money or anything material. Some people here, they expected they would get money and they just cry here and – ‘pfff’.” Sasha blows out his lips. Yes, he believes in God. “I think there is something higher than us – some power above.”

 

 

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